Follow-Up Interview 2017_PARTII
African American women athletes; African American college athletes; Olympics; African American universities and colleges
This is Part I of the Follow-Up Interview with Dr. Alpha Alexander for my Senior Independent Study Thesis.
***=Interview Questions
Transcript Below:
***DO: When you mention that it was strange being the only African American in some of your classes at Temple University, were you not one of the only ones in your classes taken at Wooster?
AA: No, that is not a true statement that I was the only one in my classes at the College of Wooster. I think when I was at Wooster this past I think it was October (DO: Yes) you met one of my classmate, Patsy Ratleff Stone and we actually help led the freshman orientation class and some other classes there were people of color in my class. The influx of international students, there were some there but not a lot as it is today at the College of Wooster. But, I think the difference is the College of Wooster was undergraduate and Temple University was a graduate school (DO: Okay). Uh, I went to the graduate program there but what I thought was very interesting was that it was in a setting in a large urban city in North Philadelphia. And so, my assumption even when I went to look at the Temple University considering whether or not to attend grad school there…I actually thought it was a Black institution
(DO: Giggles, I remember). Being naïve (Laughs) I guess coming from Ohio. I had not a clue that it wasn’t. It is quite, um…the population of attendance of students at that time and even faculty were literally white (DO: Hmm). And so, I was quite surprised thinking that I was going to graduate school at a Black institution and that was my assumption of my quick visit when I went to look at graduate schools in that urban area and not really taking a close look because the first day of classes there were not, there was only two other people of African American descent that was in my graduate class. (DO: Hmm).
***DO: Do you think there were more African American students at Wooster during your years there in Wooster?
AA: Well let me say this if you can think back in the…we were 1972 (DO: Umm Hmm) of the incoming class. And if you think about the pushes in the late 60s (DO: Right). Wooster really did try to outreach to bring more African Americans to the College of Wooster. Now, my class I think it was an incoming class of that of about out of 1800, 1700 students totally on campus, and in our incoming class was about twenty African Americans. But they did very heavy recruiting in the New York area as well as in the Cleveland area (DO: Okay). So, um, out of the twenty of my freshman class coming in at 1972…um, you know there were some African Americans and then upper classes at the College of Wooster, you know, there had been, you know, African Americans attending the College of Wooster.
And a lot of the recruitment and the outreach, um, I learned about Wooster through the Presbyterian church where we attended (DO: Right). A lot of African Americans from Dayton, Ohio came out of my church and ended up going to the College of Wooster. So, I think it was the timing (DO: Okay).
AA: Was it a lot in comparison? Um, you know that’s questionable. There’s twenty African Americans coming into a freshman class a lot. Well on a bigger scale no, but you know we sort of thought, we were a very close community on campus (DO: Umm Hmm. Okay).
DO: That is something I would mention is that push in the early 60s is relating to this research now. As far as the era of Title IX and Black females…Black female athletes (AA: Right).
***DO: Do you feel that there was a colorblind atmosphere when participating in sport at Wooster?
AA: It clearly was not a colorblind atmosphere when I participated in sport at the College of Wooster because it was of the timing, you know it was early 70s, you know. Integration and late 60s rolling into the 70s. I participated from 1972-76 and if you remember what was going on in the context of the United States at that time, um, color and whether or not you were colored, Black, African American all of that stuff was being discussed, you know (DO: Umm Hmm). I had a poster on my door and I really thought I was Angela Davis (DO: Laughs).
You couldn’t tell me I wasn’t Angela Davis with my afro. (DO: Laughs) Okay. You know, War (DO: Yeah) (Laughs) you know the musics was loud, the big afros were in fashion and if you look back in my class. So, I think it was the timing that I was in school at the College of Wooster that it couldn’t be that it was colorblind…um, because race, racial, integration, or segregation and, um, you know the Race Riots were in the 60s. It was a lot still on people’s minds (DO: Hmm).
DO: That probably would have been a question for current or more recent athletes if it’s a colorblind atmosphere (AA: Absolutely, I think so).
AA: And there were very few in, you know, in terms of the men’s program there were African Americans that participated in you know, football in you know, other sports but women, you know it was about me and then Jackie and that was about it, you know.
DO: Jackie?
AA: Yeah, Jackie Lewis (DD: Oh, yes) remember I told you she was from Cleveland (DO: Yes).
***DO: Who was Ginny Hunt to you?
AA: Well, uh Ginny Hunt was my volleyball coach (DO: Okay) Okay, she was the volleyball coach at the College of Wooster. Uh, she also, you know, taught. You know, she was a professor there. But Ginny Hunt, really…who was she to me? Not only being the volleyball coach, because doing my four years there, she ended up leaving and she went to, if I am not mistaken, the University of North Carolina, um, but instrumental, she was very instrumental in me getting to get a graduate assistantship at Temple University (DO: Okay).
Ginny Hunt knew Carole Oglesby and she made a call on my behalf to Dr. Oglesby and told Dr. Oglesby about me. And as a, in result ended up getting a graduate assistantship at Temple University. So, she was a major impact even though she, you know, had left Wooster. I continued to stay in contact with her and, uh, as you know in my story, I did not play volleyball my freshman year at Wooster. I thought I had to really study (DO: Umm Hmm) and pay attention to my classes (DO: Right). So, consequently I missed out my freshman year playing volleyball. But then the second year, you know, I ended up playing on the team, making the team and playing. But she was very instrumental later on in my career going on to graduate school (DO: Okay).
***DO: Is there anything else regarding this project that you’d like to share?
AA: Well, I’d just like to thank you for including me in on your research project. And it has been a pleasure to work with you and I hope its…my input has been helpful (DO: Absolutely). And you know, for the future in light of the state of where this country is, you know, women in sport is still going to be going forward. There may be psychologically, or legislatively a lot of things done to the laws in this country that will impact for example, like Obamacare and things of that sort (DO: Hmm)
…the wellness and health of women. The YWCA of the USA, I wanted to go back to that question. You know, we were really known for elimination of racism by any means necessary (DO: Malcolm X!). And that was a powerful statement because a lot of people confused it with the YMCA, you know, which was a whole, totally different mission than the YWCA. But also, another large part of the YWCA of the USA was about wellness of women. They had a national breast cancer program called ENCORE, for anyone who even thought about breast cancer in terms of the impact that, you know, psychologically. They had a program that you could go through and as well as in combination with exercise when women were having radical mastectomies at that time (DO: Hmm).
AA: So, the YWCA of the USA played a very instrumental role, I think of wellness of women period, you know in the United States. So (DO: Umm Hmm).
DO: Everything that is going on just really encourages me, pushes me to keep striving for excellence. Especially, you know you talk about the medical care and things like that because that is my ultimate goal, like I shared with you before is to become an Ob/Gyn (AA: Right).
But women’s health overall, even in this project this is something I was, I am passionate about. And so, just it’s rewarding to do this kind of work, but I look forward to seeing what I can do in the future with this type of work.
AA: Right, well you got a bright future ahead of you.
Unpublished
2017-02-08
<a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/4.0/"></a><br />This work by <span>Dyese Osaze</span> is licensed under a <a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/4.0/">Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0 International License</a>.
Skype Video Recording
Moving Image
InterviewPARTII_2017
The College of Wooster in Wooster, Ohio
Follow-Up Interview 2017_PARTI
Interviews; African American women; African American women athletes; African American professional athletes; Civil rights; Women's rights; Olympics;
This is Part I of the Follow-Up Interview with Dr. Alpha Alexander for my Senior Independent Study Thesis.
***=Interview Questions
Transcript Below:
***DO: So, during our 1st interview, I asked what you knew about Title IX and you mentioned that you had an interview on Voice of America last summer and mentioned that it was Dr. Ellen Staurowsky who reminded you that she heard you speak at Oberlin. When was this talk at Oberlin and how was it? Was it then that you learned about Title IX?
AA: No, actually, uh, when I found out about Title IX it was when Dr. Maria Sexton took me and a group of students from the College of Wooster to Oberlin to hear about Title IX in 1972. I do not remember when years later Dr. Ellen Staurowsky saw me speak at Oberlin and she may know the year and I could be able to send you maybe possibly her email so you can ask (DO: Okay). I remember I was a freshman at the College of Wooster and I remember when Dr. Sexton took us to Oberlin. It was to learn about this thing called Title IX, which was a new law. I did not have a clue what Title IX was before then (DO: Okay). I was a freshman so I was really green right off the branch on that topic (DO: Sure was). And as you know, in 1972 was when the law actually came into action but I don’t remember speaking at Oberlin College and I don’t remember her being there seeing me speak years later. So…that’s about as far as I can give to you on that (DO: Okay).
***DO: You stated that Title IX has had a major impact on women in sport but later you argue that Title IX really did not make much progress for women of color and diversity within the realm of sport. Can you help me understand how Title IX differentially affected women?
AA: I really believe that Title IX made a difference in gender regarding women in sport but when you look back over the years, not a lot of growth in the participation of women of color increased in this area. Uh, specifically look at Chanel Lattimer’s study and how many women of color participated in women sports when her study was completed. And also, due to making Title IX in effect at schools some of the sports were eliminated where there was participation of women of color (DO: Hmm). I also witnessed this working at a HBCU school where women sports were few and not many available. In particular, look at HBCU schools that offer only volleyball, basketball, and maybe softball. What about tennis and golf? Renee Powell and myself tried to get golf started in the SIAC conference and it resulted in a flat no.
DO: What does SIAC stand for?
AA: That’s the conference that Morehouse, uh, it’s a historically HBCU conference. Off the top of my head, I think it is the Southern Intercollegiate Athletic Conference (DO: Okay). But if you Google it, it’ll spell out what SIAC means (DO: Okay). And there’s all the schools in there are HBCUs in that conference itself
***DO: Okay, I was going to ask if there were any specific examples that you could recall regarding these issues? So, you mentioned you and Ms. Renee Powell were attempting to get golf.
AA: Yes, we tried to implement golf… but it really resulted into a flat no. So, we could definitely you know, have evolved what I call a non-traditional sport into HBCU and for both men and women… the resources and the dollars. Where I worked at, um, at Lane College eventually they did add softball and that sport apparently, you know, based on the conference eventually Title IX made an impact to, you know, add more sports but you know, the opportunity for HBCU participants particularly with the African American female, I think it is important to take a look…it would be amazing research study to look go back in history and sort of review what the growths of the women sports in NCAA schools, if there were growths and if there was not growth (DO: Hmm) and HBCU schools regarding women in sport. (DO: Okay). Uh, basketball, volleyball tends to be the traditional sports that HBCUs offer and over the years, you know, they have tried to adjust with compliance of Title IX. But, I think the opportunity to really expand, uh, particularly in some nontraditional sport could still be rooms for improvement in that area.
***DO: Okay. Tell me more about your work with the Young Women’s Christian Association’s Office.
AA: My work at the YWCA of the USA made a major impact on the United States Olympic Committee (DO: Okay). When I came to the YWCA, the executive director Dr. Gwendolyn Baker, she said “Alpha, I need something that is like the Girl Scout Cookie for Girl Scouts” and I noticed that they talked about Girls, Inc. but, they did not talk about the YWCA being involved when the Los Angeles Olympic Games were here. When the LA Games finished, they had made so much money, they designated millions of dollars just to be kept for the development of sport in Southern California but, they also distributed monies to different organizations to really develop sports. And Girls, Inc. really didn’t do a lot to do that and actually they ended up losing their name, selling their name for $750,000 to the Boys Club.
AA: So, Boys Club really became the Boys and Girls Club (DO: Hmm). I think the YWCA, we applied for membership and became a member of the United States Olympic Committee. We made an impact of inclusion and the growth of women in sport in the United States. Specifically, if you look at the Peter Westbrook Foundation impact on fencing this past Olympic Games…that all started out of a grant from the USOC through the YWCA of the USA and also Wendy Hilliard Foundation Gymnastic Foundation, the same thing it started out with grants from the USOC through the YWCA of the USA (DO: Okay).
The organization made an impact on the governing body levels and representations on different committees for inclusion of women. And then also through a grant via Nike, we made a major impact on women's basketball and volleyball in the United States. We got about a $3 million grant from Nike with development of women’s basketball and volleyball uh, in this country and were very successful in organizing the players of the WNBA to do clinics and things of that sort.
DO: Umm Hmm
AA: It was interesting the YWCA of the USA made an application to USA Basketball and they had the audacity to send a letter back to the executive director, Dr. Gwendolyn Baker of the YWCA stating that we were the YMCA and they really felt that basketball didn’t need any development in the country because it really didn’t take a lot of money to play basketball. There is a net, a court, and there was plenty of accessibility across the country (DO: Umm Hmm). But at that time there was no specific program directed for the development of girls getting involved in basketball and as you see history has proven, it really has exploded, you know, over the years.
And uh, so my executive director got very mad…first of all, they called us the YMCA (DO: Umm Hmm), which we were the YWCA. And then second of all, we went to an outside corporation, outside of Nike, who was not a sponsor of the United Stated Olympic Committee at that time and Sue Levin was very instrumental in securing this long-term grant to really help development women’s volleyball and basketball in this country (DO: Okay). I hope that helps (laughs).
DO: Yes. It is also just interesting to me as well.
AA: I also wanted to say because of the YWCA of the USA mission, it really…we were instrumental in pushing the USOC to really have inclusion of women. The USOC, they had a rule, which I thought was very unique…that if a sport represented both men and women, they would have athletes, both female and male, that would represent in terms of the athletes, on the United States Olympic Committee. But it involved representation on other various governing bodies as well as in terms of the multi-sport group. There were very little women involved, I was one of the few (DO: Umm Hmm). And definitely one of the few women of color. So, we helped really push to get more women involved on the governing body level as well as different committees and leadership positions within the United States Olympic Committee (DO: Okay).
***DO: Well with that, do you feel that the YWCA has contributed to this “gap” for women of color regarding Title IX?
AA: Well, the gap in terms of women of color…yes, I do. In a sense, because you are talking about on such a very elite level, you know, being an Olympian it is sort of like the ultimate of a lot of athletes…to be able to be an Olympian athlete and if you look at the results of Rio…that just took place, look at the success of gymnastics and look at the success of fencing (DO: Umm Hmm). And I know, some of the roots of that, even, I am very much interested, I remember really pushing that support be given to women’s wrestling (DO: Hmm). Also, looking at women’s boxing (DO: Umm Hmm). I use to chair the United States Olympic Committee member service committee and gave out the money (grant monies) to the national governing bodies as well as to the different organizations involved in…Now, you look at the growth of women participating in boxing and wrestling and, you know, lots of sports across the board
DO: Umm Hmm
AA: I think ultimately it did help (DO: Okay).
Unpublished
2017-02-08
<a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/4.0/"></a><br />This work by <span>Dyese Osaze</span> is licensed under a <a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/4.0/">Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0 International License</a>.
Skype Video Recording
Moving Image
InterviewPARTI_2017
The College of Wooster in Wooster, Ohio
Interview with Dr. Alpha Alexander: Part III
Sports for women--Management; College sports--Management; Mentoring; Diversity in the workplace; African American women; African American women athletes;
This is Part III of the 1st Interview with Dr. Alpha Alexander for my Senior Independent Study Thesis.
***=Interview Questions
Transcript Below:
***DO: How has sport participation shaped your life after college?
AA: Well, the opportunity to participate in sport here at Wooster and the people that I got the chance to know as my coaches, really propelled me for an opportunity for graduate school and graduate assistantship to Ginny Hunt and then, in terms of background, I thought, here we go again. I was going to Temple University, I went to visit north Philadelphia, I just knew I was going to a Black institution (DO: Umm Hmm). I was accepted to NYU, Temple, and I chose Temple. First day of class, it’s only three of us in the entire graduate program. And we called him Bozo the Clown (DO: Laughs) because his hair used to be like Bozo’s. And then Dr. Cassandra Jones who she eventually got her doctorate degree (DO: Okay) and little ole’ me. And the three of us and I was the first to graduate out of the graduate program.
AA: But here we are in north Philadelphia and this is, you don’t know anything about this, Rizzo days [referring to former mayor of Philadelphia], I had never seen a policemen on a horse (DO: Oh) and that was scary to me. And it was on Broad Street on a horse, you know (DO: Right, walking around! (Laughs)), Rizzo didn’t play back in those days. You know but here we and you go in a building and then you’re the only African American in some classes and it was very, very, uh, very, very strange. But in terms of this goes back when you said, what builds on character, perseverance, um, research methods, shoot that was a piece of cake for me, because why, I had been through Wooster (DO: Oh, right!) I was well prepared. (DO: See, yeah) That was like, you know, walking into… that was a good class to take. I had already been there done that let’s just look at, bring out IS, here we go, you know (DO: Laughs)
AA: But, the connections of my coach and then Dr. Oglesby and Dr. Oglesby, the opportunities that I had with her, she was internationally known, a sport psychologist and so, she took interest in me. And I used to be afraid, scared to death, didn’t know nothing about speaking in front of people, she’d take me all over the country with her, have me present, my knees. I never will forget, one time we were in San Francisco, my knees were shaking so bad. But I got up and I gave a speech. You know, I can get up and talk and have a crowd, you know, and go one, you know, those kinds of things. (DO: right) But for her, to be a mentor to me and give me accessibility and the opportunity as a Black woman, okay and she was white, really gave me accessibility. Okay, and experience, in the world of woman in sport. (DO: Umm Hmm).
AA: But then what happened, also with Temple, it wasn’t a Black institution but Nikki Franke and Tina Sloan Green was there and …(DO: I read about that).
AA: and Linda Green, who was a lawyer. And that’s sort of how we got together. And said look there’s a need for this, we need to formulate the Black Women in Sports Foundation, you know. So my participation in athletics really propelled me in life. You know in contacts and networks, and things of that sort. (DO: Umm Hmm)
***DO: What support or advice would you give to advisors, coaches, and other staff members in administration regarding your daily lived experiences as a Black female athlete?
AA: Well it’s very interesting because, and I think I might’ve mentioned this to you earlier. A lot of people give a lot of credit to Title IX but really was is the impact on diversity (DO: Hmm) based on gender and Title IX. And uh, I can’t find it but in the New York Times, Bill Rhoden, sports writer, he’s just retired, wrote about it. He had us all come up to New York and we spoke of that. Now, Tina and myself very vocally and were quoted in the New York Times about this. Everybody is celebrating oh, Title IX, so were Black women short, I’m going to say it, I say diversity, okay, but particularly, on this topic, we’re talking about Black women, were they short changed? You know, because at one point there was a lot of movement Title IX is hurting track and field (DO: Oh)
AA: Okay, and where were the majority of African Americans participating in?
DO: Track and field (said simultaneously)
AA: And based on gender, track and field (DO: Umm Hmm) Not at that time, now much more so these days, African American women are participating in basketball, you know, there’s real gains we’ve broke in swimming, gymnastics (DO: said simultaneously), fencing, and I give direct credit, a lot of people don’t know this, Wendy Hilliard (DO: Hmm), I said what do you want to do in life. And she said “oh, well I really…” I said well then you need to get serious and form your own foundation….and from there, was history.
AA: Look at rhythmic gymnastics, look at the, she’s even started a program in Detroit, even tonight is her big gala in New York City they’re having. Peter Westbrook. Peter, what are you doing? Never will forget sitting over breakfast, I can tell you in the village exactly where we sat and talked “Ahh, Alpha, I don’t want to be bothered with all of that” I said “whether you want to be bothered with it or not, you’ve got to do this (DO: Hmm) so you can do it”…20 years later, 3 bronze medals, and before that, even you know, the brothers and sisters, the Smart sisters [referring to Brother and sister Keeth and Erinn Smart] won silver medals [in fencing]. So, you see more and more African Americans excelling but really what is the impact of Title IX? Did or did not Black women really benefit from by it based on gender? Now, to go even deeper, okay, I took my little [gent] and I purposefully accepted a position at a predominately Black institution. Really, let’s do a study on HBCUs. First of all, what is Title IX to them? What is the impact? And how does women in sport has been impacted on those campuses? Morehouse is an all-male college (DO: Right), Spelman what?
DO: all-female
AA: Doesn’t offer sports! They dropped all their sport programs. (DO: Sure, did. Umm Hmm) Okay, so what message and what impact did Title IX do? You know.
DO: What did you find?
AA: Well look at Spelman (DO: Well right, yeah) you know, and don’t tell me oh yeah because, it’s good, you can participate in physical activity (DO: Yeah, that is the argument)
AA: There is something special, and I think you would agree with this, about women that participate in sport. We learn different things. We learn about win, lost, and how to be a teammate, and I can go on and on… (DO: Right!) the confidence! The self-esteem, those kinds of things. So Title IX, some say “oh, it really helped and increased women in sport, and da da da da da” but in the meantime in terms of African Americans and in terms of even diversity, it didn’t really make a…they should have tapped on “Title IX, Gender, and Diversity”
DO: More recently, there was something about swimming and there is no longer at certain institutions. There was a huge population of African American women, uh, doing swimming.
AA: Yes, and was it North Carolina, I believe right?
DO: I think so.
AA: Right, exactly. (DO: And they no longer have their program, so…)
AA: Right, right, and in fact, Dee Todd taught sent some information out, she’s track and field (DO: Okay) in North Carolina, she used to be the commissioner of CIAA [Central Intercollegiate Athletic Association], which is a Black conference. But probably… if you say in terms of Black institutions, it’s sort of like a BIG TEN, (DO: Okay), okay, but for Black institutions. CIAA is one of the biggest conferences there but she’s retired now but she talked about that. (DO: Hmm) Yea, but it’s sad! (DO: Yes)
AA: Okay, because you say that women had really made leeway…well that’s true…but on the diversity issue (DO: Not as much). And particularly African American women, you had consistently, you know, Chanel Lattimer (DO: Yes) if you look at her studies, basketball and track and field, were some of the traditional sports, you know, and then swimming there was up and coming male African American and Alex was killed in a car accident in Florida, in fact his head was amputated…in the accident. (DO: Wow) He was supposed to be the first swimmer, African American male to win a gold medal but he didn’t survive. You know, so it’s important, I think that Michelle Obama, uh, get active, get moving [referring to the Let’s Move! Campaign], okay, is fantastic. Because I’ve always thought someone needed to lead that effort. (DO: Umm Hmm)
AA: But behind that, is my friend Donna Richardson, or Donna Richardson-Joyner, you know, she used to be married to Tom Joyner (DO: Okay!) But she’s been on for the past two presidents, Bush AND Obama programs for physical fitness and Donna, she has done a lot of stuff and movement and physical activity getting particularly, Black churches involved out there moving and active. I think she made a major impact on Michelle on that movement and I was glad to see it, you know. I live down south... “Who is this Michelle Obama think they are effecting in the school system? My kids don’t like that food” [mimics]. You know the criteria, (DO: Umm Hmm) the kind of crazy stuff (DO: Right) you know what I’m saying. When you think about it, the way you eat is healthy, you know, you got to pay attention, and start instilling that in the young folks.
AA: But, um…Title IX…. it’s all that but it’s not. And I still think it has a long way to go. You know I can think, sit back, I used to be chair of the members service committee [one of the most powerful committees in the USOC Board structure] on the Olympic Committee and they didn’t want to give any money for women’s wrestling (DO: Hmm, why not?)
AA: They didn’t think it would go. They didn’t think it would develop into a sport but there’s boxing
DO: Well, look at MMA today, Rhonda Rousey and…
AA: Look at what I’m trying to tell you (DO: Laughs)
AA: It’s all based on the goal with the potentiality of each governing body and what they could do. And I fought hard, nobody will ever give me credit for it but I fought hard to get the money to help get Olympic boxing and wrestling started.
DO: Boxing was huge this year as well, Claressa Shields
AA: Yep. In fact, she was in New York last night (DO: Oh), she was with Wendy [Hilliard] (DO: Okay! Wow!) Wendy’s got a picture of her, Billie Jean King, and I forget who else in the picture but yep. Yeah.
***DO: So, what would you like, what would you say we need to do to, because we have Title IX but then what more should we be doing?
AA: Well, programs like Wendy (DO: Hmm) and Peter. To me it is a key, sort of, like from the pipeline. And the accessibility of sports (DO: Sports (said simultaneously). Economically, it’s beyond reach for some people. (DO: Right) My little baby cousin, she’s taller than me now, she just went into the, what the fourth grade? Fifth grade? She made the basketball team (DO: Umm Hmm) But she’s fortunate. She’s got parents that can afford to, you know, um I call her snake woman, she the lady is a ball player, Andrea [Carter—former UT Lady Vols women’s basketball player], she has a snake that she carries around with her. I call her snake woman. Her mom, my cousin, is head of the Boys and Girls Club in Knoxville, she has accessibility to someone who can work with her. (DO: Hmm) But, the cost, the accessibility, the equipment, whose going on the travel team? Who has a facility to do rhythmic gymnastics and gymnastics? (DO: Right)
AA: So, one thing it has to be looked on widening the base of accessibility. (DO: Umm Hmm) Okay, in terms of activity. This is just my opinion, okay but I think there is one thing we can do. And number two, I don’t care what you say, some people say “ahh, the HBCUs are dying” and all that…they’re not dying. Okay, they need to get right. And they need to really beef up their women’s sports program. Someone really needs to go in and do a Title IX investigation, in my opinion. And examine what is taking place and what is equitable and you know, things of that sort. And then another thing is that the mentoring programs, administrative-wise in terms of giving back training, so people can step in and you know be able to carry forward
(DO: Carry on) you know, we’re not going to be around forever. But passing that torch back and bringing more people on and some people were afraid of that…but why? To me the more, the merrier. You know, the more contributions that can be made in all kinds of ways. So, really analyzing and seeing the way. Same things you hear today. What is in the leadership of the NCAA? What are the leadership of coaching? The Black Coaches Association just debunked. I don’t know if you knew that. (DO: No, I didn’t!)
AA: I’ve got this stuff on my phone. But we can go on the internet and I can show you, but the press release was just sent out, it’s debunked. You know, what is that saying? Okay, in terms of development of leadership, you know. If you look at the pros, Richard Lapchick? Do you know Richard? (DO: No, I don’t)
AA: His father was the first NBA, and at that time there was an NBA, but he was the coach of the New York Knicks who allowed Blacks on the team. (DO: Hmm) So Richard Lapchick has followed in his father’s footsteps and really advocated. Okay, so if you see Jesse Jackson it used to be back in the day “come one up, you know, here we are in this hotel room, here we’re gonna talk about the sporting goods industry…da da da da and by the way, we’re in the high end. So dig in your pockets deep because we have to pay for this room” But the white person that was standing on the stage of all of Jesse Jackson and his folks (DO: Hmm) was Richard Lapchick.
AA: And Richard Lapchick is a professor in Florida. He was good friends also with Arthur Ashe (DO: Okay). But he does the NCAA report card and talks about Black athletes and things of…You really need to take a look at some of his work and research. (DO: Okay). Okay, so all those things really point, what are the grade point averages? You know, he’s calls it the report card but are these things important? Yes, it is important.
AA: Emmett Gill, he’s done some work, you know. Emmett, he is formulating a group to address it and like he said “how could the Black Coaches Association go debunked”? (DO: Right) When you’ve got many NFL coaches making millions, they could’ve given the organization some money (DO: Absolutely!) You know to continue, so, there’s a lot still going out there. There’s people who would say “oh, okay Obama became president… a lot of things were going to be accomplished, a lot of things were going to be done” Now they’re sort of like “oh, this is the year of the women because you know Hillary is coming in. You know, some of the same think in terms of, at least, this is my opinion (DO: Umm Hmm) in power structure, is that I never seen …it’s some of the toughest critics in women in sport are white women. And having an accessibility to allow such an ability for Blacks to break in (DO: Hmm).
AA: Athletic prowess, we are becoming much more immerged of the WNBA. Renee Brown just stepped down, which is a tragic lost for the WNBA. She’s been there twenty years but Renee really develop the WNBA and she always was the vice president and never given the leadership role and they have had Black women, you know, taken the lead after Val Ackerman [referring to WNBA former commissioner] and things of that sort. But to me, they have been some of the toughest and non-insightful, [inclusivist]. If they’re a star, they might be inclusive (DO: Umm Hmm). Like, Women Sports Foundation, their whole [operatum] is starship and who Jackie Joyner Kersee, you know, blah blah blah but if you really take a closer look and examine what do they do programmatically? There may be grants and give them out, but what do they really do? Like the Peter Westbrook’s on, what I call roots on the ground (DO: Umm Hmm) you know, kind of people.
DO: That’s interesting you say that because my research so far, is showing that during Title IX, it was mainly about, because I am using Black feminist theory, that will be one of my sources for my theoretical framework (AA: Umm Hmm) and just not even having insight on what are the needs of Black women in sport. It wasn’t really an issue for them. (AA: Umm Hmm). So that’s interesting.
AA: I think it’s interesting you haven’t talked to Tina yet. (DO: I will) Tina is on the, let me say, on this side, the radical side. I think you’ll get a very interesting perspective or take on the whole thing. She’s been there…seen it, done it…she couldn’t go with the USA, I think it was field hockey team to South Africa, and she was on the team, because she was Black.
DO: To South Africa? (AA: Yes.)
AA: This was during when South Africa in apartheid. (DO: Oh, okay) So, she has been through it from then. She’s at Temple, three national championships, you know what I’m saying. Was she really given due credit, is she being given due credit? You know, she is developing a lot in terms of lacrosse and what I am talking about is, her thing was field hockey and lacrosse. But the specialization was in non-traditional sport (DO: Wow) as a Black woman. She’s um…you’ll hear some of her thoughts thread to me. I just hung up from her. She called me before and I was like “I can’t talk Tina (DO: Laughs) I’m getting on a plane.” I said “I’ll call you when I land.” So I call her, she said “where are you”? I said “Wooster.” I said “With Brenda right here” (DO: Laughs). She goes “Uh”? She didn’t even know I was going out of town. (DO: Okay) But anyhow.
***DO: What advice would you give to new and returning Black female athletes who are participating?
AA: New and returning, to me it’s about…perseverance again. It goes back to that. But also, passing the torch and bringing the younger ones forward. I think it’s extremely important. You know, the whole concept, that’s one of the other benefits of coming to a college like Wooster, is we get it about liberal arts, we get it about community service, you know, we might not have quite got it while I was here, but I got it, you know what I’m saying. So, community service, is now the in-thing. We’ve been doing (DO: Right) and graduates from this university. That’s one of the beauties about a liberal arts education. Uh, but also spiritually-wise, it’s about giving back (DO: Hmm) and bringing someone forward (DO: Umm Hmm). I think that’s crucial.
DO: You mention that and there is actually a first year student, who is on the field hockey team under with Coach Brenda Meese. (AA: You did say that!) Yes!
DO: And I have just been reaching out to her every time I can. (AA: Umm Hmm) just to see how she’s doing, you know because I’m here (AA: Yeah) and she, I think she’s the only African American woman on the field hockey team. So, I mean at least I had a couple when I first came here for track. There were a couple of others here already. But she’s the only one so I just want to reach out to her. And my mother is an AKA and her mother is one, so they met (AA: met, okay, alright) and she wanted me to introduce myself to her daughter, so I said oh yes, absolutely and that reminds me of it.
AA: Yeah, yeah, that’s good. (DO: Umm Hmm) Because that’s important, you know, knowing that you’ve got that support base here and you know, you might be able to pass some things on to that she can (DO: Right) be able to accomplish. You think that the Harambee house didn’t start over there, the Harambee house started up in the dorms. You know what I’m saying. (DO: Hmm, right)
AA: Because back in the day, I thought I was Angela Davis (DO: Laughs) I had the big afro, I used to have Angela Davis that was my door poster in my room and even when I was an RA of the...
DO: She came to the College!
AA: Yeah, that’s what I heard! But I wasn’t here. I wish I could’ve seen her. Eric Dyson was here too. (DO: He was! yes!) That was funny that day we talked too. I said “let me send her this picture” (DO: Laughs simultaneously)
DO: And I did not go up and get a picture because I would’ve showed you, I know. But I enjoyed his talk. (AA: Right, right).
DO: And Wes Moore came recently too (AA: I see, yeah I think I read that somewhere) I can show you a photo, I got a photo.
AA: Yeah, because you’ll treasure those years from now. (DO: You say what?) You’ll treasure those photos (DO: Oh, right!) years from now. You definitely will. (DO: Yeah)
***DO: So, How would you describe yourself today? Looking back?
AA: Old. No, I’m teasing. (DO: (Laughs simultaneously) Oh stop!) How do I describe myself today? Um, what I’m trying to do, first of all is to contribute okay literature-wise. Writings never really been my thing, okay, but I just gave you a copy of an article on Arthur Ashe. Doing some things like that. Stirring up the pot with Senator Lamar Alexander and popped in there yesterday, how does she know him? But, you know, continuing to see, hopefully, the Black Women in Sports Foundation continue on and doing some new and different things. (DO: That’s like what it’s like, having that... [Referring to DO’s research being added to the BWSF webpage]) Yeah, that’s always been a dream of mine having the research as a central place, you know, for that. And most important, I love working around young people, because y’all have great ideas. You know, and I really, don’t know how I ended up, I have a couple of mentees who are boys now. (Laughs) (DO: Yeah, that’s in the photo. [Check webpage for photo])
AA: Right, like, Mr. Wright, Nick Wright and I have Brandon Branch, who is in Memphis [TN], okay I’ve got Micah Wise okay whose getting ready to graduate in December, it’s taken him about ten years (DO: Okay) okay, but he’s going to be a physical education teacher, you know. I don’t know but I’ve gotten some men that, you know, I’ve tried to mentor. But for me also, looking at living down south and the racism is still alive and well. And how can I really do some things positively down there and I guess, it’s just deep seated in my father. (DO: Hmm).
AA: Me returning south and you know I was named I haven’t run into it and became very good friends with the former mayor, [Sami Barile] while she was in office and she supported me. And the tasks force and next year will be the ninth year for the Martin Luther King Breakfast. So, things of that sort, that’s where I see myself now. Okay? And being down, of course, in the state of Tennessee with the Vols and enjoying sports. I keep the scorebook for men’s and women’s basketball team at Walter State (DO: Okay). And the women’s team went to the national tournament last year. For a community college, they are very successful, you know things of that sort. So, being involved and two, for me to returning south, this is about family. (DO: Hmm)
AA: I have a cousin who had a stroke and had aneurysm brain surgery, so I am cooking for her (DO: Hmm, right) and developing cooking skills is new for me but I’ll try it. (DO: Laughs simultaneously). And my seventy-six year old cousin, you know, to care for her (DO: Hmm) and I have a ninety year old cousin that is in a living assistance program, but you know making sure she when I go back, she wants to vote. And I’m going to take her to do early voting (DO: Hmm) you know and she’s on a walker now but we’re going to (DO: Get there, said simultaneously) and you know those types of things you know, so. And I still have the same friends you know from Wooster forward. You know Brenda, she’s one of my longest and dearest friends, Mechelle, Artura Otey, you know, and then the other thing is, you’ll find once you graduate and you all get back together, it’s just like you left yesterday.
AA: Patsy Ratcliff [Stone], she lives here (DO: Okay). Patsy and Manny is her husband, he played basketball here. I texted her, she wants to you know check in with me, she wants to see me, you know, it’s just like you just left off, you know. These were good days here. There were bad days and good days at Wooster (DO: Hmm). You know, but it…for me, being a Black woman I also had other things I were involved with. But I never lost who I was and my identity. (DO: Hmm).
AA: But my father was very strong like that. (DO: Yeah) And he led a demonstration in Dayton because (Paul Lawrence Dunbar) graves they weren’t up keeping, he led this huge demonstration (laughs) in Dayton, Ohio, okay to get it cleaned up and to today the graves are clean, they tell me. I mean one of my aunts, we called her King Tut, she voted for Shirley Chisholm for president. (DO: For president, (laughs simultaneously))
AA: My mother was the baby of nine but my other two aunts went voting with her, they said Aunt Nena who did you vote…Shirley Chisholm. My other two aunts, were laughing they went back into the bedroom and was laughing at my aunt. (DO: Laughs) But, she was progressive, you know and out there in that day. So, enjoying family, you know (DO: Yea, Absolutely) I don’t have any…kids, okay? But I do have a puppy, her name is Bella Bear.
***DO: So, what would you like to tell me that you have, that I have not asked already? Is there anything that you’d like to share?
AA: Hmm, that’s a good question. And I saw that question that you had sent. Can I answer that later? (Laughs) No, you want it on tape don’t you.
DO: You can answer it later.
Unpublished
2016-10-20
<a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/4.0/"></a><br />This work by <span>Dyese Osaze</span> is licensed under a <a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/4.0/">Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0 International License</a>.
Video Recording
Moving Image
InterviewPARTIII_2016
The College of Wooster in Wooster, Ohio
Interview with Dr. Alpha Alexander: Part I
Sports for women; Sports for children; Sports for children--Coaching; College sports for women; African American women; African American women athletes;
This is Part I of the 1st Interview with Dr. Alpha Alexander for my Senior Independent Study Thesis.
***=Interview Questions
Transcript Below:
***DO: Yeah, So, I am here with Dr. Alexander and I want to look at, uh, the experiences of Black female athletes in the era of Title IX and I wanted to invite you so I thank you for being here. And, so, my first question is, uh, how did you get involved in sport?
AA: Well, as a little girl, I followed my dad around a lot. I watched football with him, he was an athlete. (DO: Umm hmm)
AA: But, sports were not available in high school for women in Dayton, Ohio at that time. But I had an opportunity, a friend of my mother’s, a teacher, and friend. He wanted to teach me how to play tennis and his two sons and so he taught us how to play tennis and I ended up becoming city of Dayton champion. (DO: Umm hmm)
AA: Um, and then I played softball and I got injured. My father, he got mad because I left tennis to play softball. (DO: Oh)
AA: I was a pretty good catcher too, at least I thought but, um, so recreationally wise I had an opportunity to participate in those two sports but nothing under, uh, collegiate or you know nothing under in terms of high school. There were no opportunities so I ended up playing the clarinet in the band.
***DO: Okay. What sport did you decide to pursue in college and why?
AA: Well, I came to Wooster and I was really excited. I did not want to come to Wooster, I wanted to, I grew up um, I was born in Nashville, Tennessee. But I grew up in Dayton, Ohio but every summer I would set south, so I would spend the whole summer playing with my cousins. So, I wanted to go to Tennessee State, where the Tigerbelles were. (DO: Right)
AA: And unfortunately, the um, my mother helped me sneak an application, uh, off to Tennessee State and I was accepted but my father had every intention of me coming to The College of Wooster.
AA: It was a Presbyterian school, a lot of people, uh, from my church actually attended here. But I got really excited because, the summer, uh before the fall, spring, before I attended Wooster, I found out they had a women’s basketball team. (DO: Umm Hmm)
AA: Knew nothing about women’s basketball but always knew that I wanted to participate in sport. And so, they were appearing at the University of Dayton, I believe, in a tournament and I got really excited and once I landed on the campus of Wooster, I found out they had 13 sports for women, which was unbelievable. (DO: (Laughs))
AA: Um, I, uh, really thought, um, volleyball was in the fall, and I thought I really had to not participate in sports and really study. (DO: Hmm (Nods head in agreement))
AA: So, I did not play my freshman year (DO: Okay) of volleyball here. Uh, but Brenda Meese, who is currently the athletic, women’s athletic director, uh, at The College of Wooster, she was from Dayton, Ohio and, uh, Beavercreek, he was a state champion, a track athlete, but uh, I used to catch rides back to Dayton, so you know, when we had the opportunity to go home, [she] would drop me off my parents would pick me up or we would pick her up and drive her back with us up here. But she took me meet Nan Nicols, the basketball coach. (DO: Okay).
AA: And, um, I knew nothing about basketball but I wanted to play basketball so that’s the sport that I chose. Um, I participated in a course of time, that spring I played tennis. (DO: Okay)
AA: Okay and then the following year, I played volleyball which we went clear to the national tournament, which was unbelievable. Um, and actually The College of Wooster hosted it. Uh, here on campus. So, that was, you know, really a special time under Ginny Hunt. I played basketball and then some crazy idea, I decided to try out for lacrosse. But I injured myself. (DO: Okay)
AA: And then towards the end of the basketball season, had weak ankles. (DO: Oh) and decided to that I had to give it up (DO: Umm Hmm) you know.
AA: And then my junior year, um, for the junior independent study, I am not even sure you still have to do that
DO: Yes, we sure do!
AA: I decided, um, I didn’t want to play tennis, I played volleyball and basketball but, um, for the independent study I wanted to try to help design a women’s track, our track program for Wooster. (DO: Oh! Okay)
AA: So, that was sort of my junior IS and then my senior year…I must have had senioritis, I decided not to play volleyball and participated in basketball. (DO: Umm Hmm) And uh, that was and then, you know, the girls athletic association I was really involved with.
DO: What sports did they have at the University of Tennessee when you were applying?
AA: Uh, no Tennessee State
DO: Tennessee State
AA: Which is a Black institution. Okay?
DO: And, and…
AA: Um, I knew they had track and field I did not know what other sports they had. I just wanted to go to a Black institution. (DO: Right)
AA: Um, and not knowing exactly what Wooster was about, and you know before I arrived on campus, um I just wanted to go to where the Tigerbelles were. And, and, and hated track (DO: (Laughs))
AA: you know, I have never been a runner (laughs)
AA: I had, I loved bouncing the ball and shooting the ball and things of that sort but I just knew but my father did not under any circumstances wanted me to return to the state of Tennessee.
DO: Hmm
AA: So, now he’s rolling in his grave because I actually moved back
DO: says “back” simultaneously (laughs)
AA: and I wanted to prove I guess , uh, there’s an article I read in there’s a lot of African Americans in the north are moving back to really to, you know see
DO: Hmm
AA: First for me, to be [inquisitive] what was all this about, was, you talking about racism and things of that sort. But, uh, I wanted to go back to try and make a change.
***DO: What kinds of personal attributes, uh, do you feel you’ve gained from your experiences in track, oh or in um in sport?
AA: Well, um, for me um, being a member of a team (DO: Hmm)
AA: Uh, knowing how to be a leader, really, uh, not feeling all beat up because I lost. Um, we know how to win, um, and I think the most importantly is perseverance. (DO: Absolutely)
***DO: What was the College environment when you got here?
AA: Well it’s very interesting, there were members of uh, my church (DO: Oh, right) okay, that were here, in fact there were some twins in and then, um, so I knew there was some people but when I arrived out of all the freshman, everybody else was matched with Black roommates. (DO: Hmm)
AA: Except for me. I had a white roommate in Holden Hall (DO: Okay)
AA: Okay, and um, that was very strange and most of the female African Americans, they put on the other end of the campus. So (DO: Oh, wow)
AA: I, uh, you know thought as I told you the freshman year , um, I wanted I didn’t play volleyball because I thought I had to study. I did not understand you could play volleyball and you know study and become a, ah, in terms of which your grades so, I was sort of isolated, you know, but, um I got the chance to meet people and actually my roommate, the next year Artura Otey, uh and Mechelle Dill who are two of my best friends ever, um, who as of today, we’re still friends, um (DO: That’s good!) and they both uh, we both became friends.
AA: Artura Otey became my roommate but Mechelle Dill she was out in California, she is my absolute best friend
DO: She became your roommate sophomore year?
AA: Uh, Artura Otey became my roommate my sophomore year. Now very interesting, after the first quarter, because we were in quarters then (DO: Oh, wow. Yeah) okay uh, the white roommate she would leave every weekend because she had a boyfriend, okay? So she never was around and then when we came back for the second quarter… I didn’t have a roommate. (DO: Oh?)
AA: So I had a room the rest of the freshman year all by myself, whereby up on the other end of the campus, all of the African American Black girls were up there (DO: (Laughs))
AA: And they were partying and having times and that was a trek for me, back and forth. (DO: Uhh huh!) But it was real interesting because I was one of the, I was the only one at that time that participated in women’s sports (DO: Hmm) here on campus (DO: Umm hmm).
AA: So, people in the basketball program got to know me, you know, and people started coming out seeing, you know, women’s basketball uh, team play. But it was like ah ha ha ha, Alpha’s participating in sports, you know, so the whole time I was here, okay, my colleagues, uh African American colleagues, they sort of laughed at me, oh she’s in the gym all the time, blah, blah, blah (DO: Umm hmm)
AA: And it’s very interesting telling this right now because now it’s sort of reversed. (DO: Ha!)
AA: Their all living in California and their healthness, and walking, exercising, those kinds and this is what I tried to tell you thirty, forty years ago (laughs)
DO: years ago! (Laughs too)
AA: You know, while you had a gym and some really nice, you know, facilities at that time. We had really nice facilities here but they used to laugh at me and ahh, she’s involved in sport. And actually my , uh, senior IS was on that, the physical activity , um, you know African Americans in Wright State, Central State, which is a predominately Black institution, and then The College of Wooster. (DO: Umm hmm)
AA: You know, I incorporated one class I had we had to do a twelve minute run/walk test and they were like laughing at me , they were like “you think we’re gonna run”? They were like walking. I distinctly remember that over in the gym (DO: Really?)
AA: When I had my friends from the other side of campus come down and participate but they were like this is full of bologna. What are you…you know (DO: Right)
AA: Why are you? They did not understand it, you know, I didn’t understand it because I didn’t have it available to me in high school. But here at Wooster, there were 13 sports for women and I was learning you know, it was something that I thought I had a passion for
DO: Right, What were your results from your IS?
AA: That the predominately Black institution was a little activity but they did at Central State at that time have girls’ sports. (DO: Hmm)
AA: Okay, uh Wright State, you know was built particularly, it’s got a whole complete maze underground for disabilities, which they were ahead of their time at that time. (DO: Umm hmm)
AA: Okay, but they had participation in sport whereby here at Wooster…the participation of people on campus that were African Americans, they didn’t want to participate. (DO: Oh)
AA: So, you had a variance of predominately white institutions this was my theory, okay, that Black institutions, then you also had institutions that was just really starting Wright State but also focused on disability, which is another diversity, uh, kind of issue. So, um, that sort of, you know the, the um, the outcome it’s been so long ago, I can hardly remember (laughs)
DO: (Laughs) But the disability is an issue (AA: Yes) and it still is going on currently (AA: Umm hmm)
***DO: So help, uh, can you tell me a few stories to help illustrate the way the team, uh, you all cooperated with one another?
AA: Yes, well actually I’ll tell you the story about um my teammate, Brenda Meese (DO: Okay)
AA: Um, we had the opportunity of playing Central State, uh, and Coach Nan Nicols, we went down. I was really excited. It’s not that far from Dayton. So my parents got to see me play the sport basketball right, and, uh we went down and Brenda and I, they literally attacked us. And, the next day, she had a Black eye, I was limping around with bruises. I ended up fouling out of the game. I was so embarrassed. Here my parents were (DO: Right) to come to see me play
AA: Outside of Dayton, Ohio and then
DO: And then that happens
AA: We lose, really terribly but not only that, they were really rough, um, and Nan Nicols was so pissed, she said you know a contractual agreement, they had to come here the following year to play. And that, after that she was not ever going to renew a contract between the two institutions. So, that happened. So, the following year, okay, here we are limping around, okay, but the following year, they came. My father had in the meantime had a heart attack. I look up in the stands, here’s my father… in the stands, I think I scored like 30, 40 points that day (DO: Wow)
AA: And we won, okay (DO: Look at that!) It ended up being victorious but to say all of that, no matter what the diversity of the team, which was very limited, in a lot of instance, I was the only one but then we did have some other African American girls play. Um, Brenda was white but she, low economic family. I’m Black, low economic family but we still gelled and ‘til today, were still friends. (DO: Friends, umm hmm)
AA: You know, and I just had lunch with her. We’re talking, we’re able to talk about anything, you know, elections, and you know (DO: Absolutely) all kinds of things. So, that that story about bonding. And, being able to guide. I didn’t know what was going to do when I graduated Wooster. I knew I wanted to go to graduate school. (DO: Umm Hmm)
AA: But I didn’t know what mission, I knew it was some mission I was on, I now sort of realize what my mission in life, you know, what I have been able to accomplish but at that time, it was a passion of something to do. Brenda went her way, she was into coaching.
She was a heck of an athlete! You know but she, went into coaching and she went to Greensboro, which was “The” physical education school, you know of the time. I went to Temple, you know, um but I got lucky because Ginny Hunt knew Dr. Carole Oglesby and she made a call and then I got a graduate [assistanceship] and opportunity to go to Temple University.
Unpublished
2016-10-20
<a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/4.0/"></a><br />This work by <span>Dyese Osaze</span> is licensed under a <a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/4.0/">Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0 International License</a>.
Video Recording
Moving Image
InterviewPARTII_2016
The College of Wooster in Wooster, Ohio
Interview with Dr. Alpha Alexander: Part II
Interviews; College sports for women; Sports for women; African American women; African American women athletes
This is Part II of the 1st Interview with Dr. Alpha Alexander for my Senior Independent Study Thesis.
***=Interview Questions
Transcript Below:
***DO: So, what did you know about, did you know anything about Title IX during your years here?
AA: I knew absolutely nothing. And the amazing thing is, uh the book that Professor McDowell, that book, that Ellen from Drexel, Ellen Staurowsky, she, I was on a, um Voice of America radio interview this summer (DO: Okay)
AA: There was two women from Botswana, Africa, me, her, and Dr. Oglesby talking about diversity of sport and things of that sort. And she says Alpha, she wrote me later, she said “I remember when I first met you, I came to Oberlin College to hear you talk about Title IX” and I was like “Oh my God, you heard ME talk about Title IX”! What happened was, Dr. Maria Sexton, here at Wooster, and she was on the Olympic Committee at that time. (DO: Oh really?)
AA: okay, and I think that’s why Wooster was so advanced with 13 sports for women and they were very you know progressive in that era. Uh, she decided that we needed to know about this thing, this law coming into action, called Title IX. And they were having some kind of session up at Oberlin and she took us up there. I knew nothing about it, but I went (DO: Right) you know.
AA: So, that was my beginning of learning about Title IX. Now, not having any idea the impact over my lifetime that it has had in the development of women in sport in the United States. It’s been a major, major impact (DO: Absolutely)
AA: But, that’s how I first learned about Title IX. (DO: Wow)
AA: Yeah, so it was for Wooster and Maria Sexton and having the opportunity to go to Oberlin College. But then, years later they said they heard me talk about it (DO: (Laughs))
AA: I don’t even remember it. (Laughs)
***DO: (Laughs too) Can you recall a time in Wooster where you were consciously aware of being Black?
AA: The day I walked on campus! (DO: (Laughs simultaneously))
AA: You know, here’s my mother and father, you know, take you to the bookstore and my mother made sure she was obsessed about that I had all the books I needed for my classes (DO: Right), buying all those books, you know for the classes and stuff like that
AA: They even had an orientation, uh previous to that and my dad brought me up. But some of the members of my church were here on campus and you got the chance to spend day or two, you know, and I think, you know, at that time, if you think about it in the early 70s, they were really trying to recruit, okay African Americans to this campus, the largest of this sector was from Cleveland, Ohio. Dayton, Ohio they did get some but Cleveland was the masses that were down and they were able to recruit to the campus. I think in my class, there were, ended up being 20 African American freshman and when we graduated it was 8 or 10 of us. So, which in terms of retention, (DO: Umm Hmm) you know you’re talking about 50% there. But, at least we did make it. (DO: Absolutely)
AA: And some of us did proceed to go on to graduate school and become doctors or become lawyers or you know things of that sort. It was a high percentage of graduates from The College of Wooster end up going, you know, on to graduate school. (DO: graduate school)
***DO: Well, can you recall a time when you were aware of being a woman on campus?
AA: Definitely yes. Um…the first day I stepped on campus, okay. And, not only that, I think with me participating in women’s sports, okay, and then two in terms of the Black culture, you know we had our fashion show on campus, so you know I was in the fashion show, (DO: Okay) you know and things, you know, the Black culture. Those are things that we did on campus activities that we did with the Harambee House (DO: Okay, Harambee yes)
AA: and things of that sort. So, um, you know, there still was, you know, you had a boyfriend, you know then you broke up, then the girl that was going with him, lived down the hall way (DO: Right. (Laughs)). You want to beat him up and beat her up, you know. So, you know, those things, you know, I really became active in sport and really busy and I was on a mission about, trying to do good in my grades. I was always skeptical because I never, I’m the type of person that never tested well. (DO: Umm, same) Okay, when I’m talking about the SATs and the ACTs (DO: right, same). So I was nervous. And here my dad, this is a school he wanted me to go to and, you know, they were hard working parents trying to help support me, I wanted to make sure academically (DO: Right) you know I held up my end of the bargain (DO: Umm Hmm).
AA: I will never forget Tuti and I were in a class, a writing class together, and I swear to this day the teacher got me and her mixed up. Okay, because I had tested out of taking this sort of remedial type of writing class. And at the end of this class, she passed and I did not. But I swear the teacher messed us up because we were two Black women (DO: Hmm). And so I got pissed, and I went over to administration and I fought it and I won it. And Mr. Shipe who was, you know, how they have the freshman advisory groups.
DO: Yes. First Year Seminar.
AA: Okay, well first year, I ended up in his group but the second year I was his assistant (DO: Okay) and I talked to him about it and he really stood up for me too. Because academically, I’ll never tell Tuti this in public, okay, but the um, I still today, swear this professor got us mixed up. You know, so here I was forced to take this stupid (DO: (Laughs) Remedial course!) I got back, I was like “this is crazy” and then I ended up pursuing and did end up getting knocked out of the class and didn’t have to take it. It was stupid (DO: Laughs simultaneously).
***DO: What has been your most positive experiences you have encountered as an athlete?
AA: Oh, there’s lots of positive experiences. As a athlete, active athlete or past athlete? (DO: Both)
AA: Okay, well active athlete, you know, just the fact of being able to participate in sport you always dreamed of, you thought you might be good at it but you knew nothing, I didn’t even know anything about the game. Okay, so to be able to do that and excel in volleyball as well as basketball um, was really, really special to me. But most of importantly, after my career was over with, I participated recreationally in various cities that I lived in.
But being an athlete really helped me pursue my profession. Okay, I had a chance, actually I give credit, a lot of delegations I’ve led around the world were to study women in sport and also to study you know athletics or the Olympic structure or the whole gender issue. And ultimately, working for the Young Women’s Christian Association national office. I had the chance to go to Beijing, you know the famous, you heard on the debate. Hillary went to the conference in Beijing, I was actually there (DO: Yes)
AA: Okay, so you know, and before that conference started, I led a delegation of women in sport before the Conference began. It was just focused on women in sport. So, to be able to when you say athlete, you sort of live out and have the opportunity, because I, you know, tried to a little officiating, but I am a Gemini so I like to try little different things and it has given me an opportunity really literally to travel around the world. And even until today, yesterday I was with Senator Lamar Alexander, I know him why? Because I was selected into the NCAA Silver Anniversary Award Winner. He was selected years before me and he’s one and it’s sort of like a kinship there. And he remembers me because I was like years ago, worked in his office in Washington, D.C. and you know, he’s a classical pianist, he’s brilliant, you know everybody says he’s a Republican, so what? He’s my friend, you know (DO: right).
AA: And I got the chance to hold the cane that Mandela gave him. He collects canes from all over the world. But when I contacted his aide, he saw me but yet the young man you saw in the picture, that’s my mentee. So I gave him an opportunity to meet someone. [Picture on webpage]
DO: Look at that!
AA: So, sports has played a very important role in my life.
DO: I see it’s a lot of networking. (AA: Yes, yes)
***DO: What has been your most positive experience you have encountered as an African American?
AA: Most positive experience as an African American?! (Both laugh simultaneously) That’s interesting. Well, the most gratifying (DO: Okay) experiences is the fact that Obama won. Okay and that I lived to see that accomplished. The, I say another one, I had an opportunity to work with Arthur Ashe (DO: Okay) and get to know him. He called me double A, I called him double A, you know, but helping him help design and helped Arthur Ashe Foundation, which now, you know, has grown tremendously. But getting to know him and getting the opportunity to take him up in Harlem to mentor a young man, and people looking at him in the elevator, there like is this Arthur Ashe or is it not.
AA: It was funny, one day on the subway, we were riding uptown together and this man said “Excuse me, are you Arthur Ashe”? And he says “Oh, no” he said “You sure do look like Arthur Ashe” he said “I’m not Arthur Ashe.” So we get to 42nd street, you know, the hot spot, we gets ready to get off the train and right before the doors closed he told the man “I’m Arthur Ashe”
DO: (Laughs simultaneously)
AA: Arthur was a joker. You know, and unfortunately after he, announced he was HIV/AIDS positive, I used to tease him, he used to eat weird stuff like kiwi and Ensure, you know, the doctor would give it to people that are sickly and needed certain vitamins and stuff. They drank it, like one a day. It really helps boost, okay, like everything in your body. He would get off stuff like Kiwi. What brand? What kind of stuff you drinking today?
DO: (Laughs simultaneously)
AA: You know, he was a jokester, you know, but for him, he was a role model because he was an intellect, okay, he was funny, he was an athlete, very famous athlete, you know, so I thought there was really, when he died, a void because you know people can say there is Harry Edwards and certain people out there but he really was the intellectual mind, I thought, in sports, in academics, and the relationship of student-athlete concept, okay
DO: So there are some positive experiences! (AA: Yes)
DO: You had to ask that question again though. (Laughs simultaneously)
***DO: What has been your most positive experience as a woman?
AA: Positive experiences, uhh…attending the conference in Beijing, the women’s conference, and leading a delegation and being a very proud, one of my colleagues at the YWCA was Chinese, and spoke fluent Mandarin and I took her along she knew nothing about sport but I took her along the trip and when it was time for the Chinese delegation and the U.S delegation to talk. They had me go up first and I had Audrey Lam go up there to speak mandarin and they were shocked to see their faces like that. (DO: (Laughs)) Having the chance to as a woman, being able to see different women in different cultures in sport has been simply amazing to me. And these figures serving on the United States Olympic Committee.
AA: For some reason, George Steinbrenner loved me, the owner of the Yankees. So you know, I don’t know why but he said that I was the kind of person, one day there some legislation on the floor and the community based organization never could get legislation up on the floor for discussion and pass. And I had got this legislation through and he came over and he said “you go and you give them hell”! (DO: Laughs)
AA: And I looked at him because I don’t use profanity. And I was like “what are you doing?” But sure enough, I went out of there and I had the lawyer. She’s a lawyer and professor at the University of Wisconsin at Madison and we won. So later on he says, “Alpha, why is everybody in New York asking me for tickets and sitting in my box and I have never heard from you?” I said “I never thought”, I said “George, I thought you were too busy.” I didn’t really think about asking him. I wasn’t thinking about that, you know, but consequently, he said that baseball was on strike. But when they get off of strike, call Bono, my limousine driver and have him pick you up and bring you to my box. Well years later, I did end up going to his box but he for some reason used to light up when he would see me. I don’t know what that was about, you know (DO: Laughs). That was really, really sort of crazy, but he even during in Atlanta during the bombing he was concerned about me, where was Alpha, you know I was in the hotel tying up the phone lines calling the kids parents to let them know that they were okay. (DO: Umm hmm) you know that kind of thing.
AA: As a woman working for the YWCA of the USA, a woman’s organization and being able to help develop women’s basketball and volleyball, in this country has given me a lot of opportunity in that way. Lots of things, its lots of things. (DO: You could go on and on) Yeah, we could go on and on and on.
***DO: So, what has been your most negative experience as an athlete a former or currently?
AA: Negative experience I would have to say, for me, active athlete was participating in that Central State game (DO: Hmm). It still today comes…I can easily talk about it. I just didn’t understand it, you know, and to be attacked and physically beat up and then I think for me too, I was wanting to have my parents see me play a good game and it was just embarrassing. (DO: Umm Hmm) that was a negative. For me, in terms of internationally, to see the, and this is culture diversity is what I’m speaking about, leaving the youth delegation to not get off and have the French delegate spit on the U.S delegate just because they’re from the United States. So, I’ve seen the ugly and I’ve seen the good.
DO: I think that is one of the most degrading things you can do to somebody.
AA: Yes, very degrading. But, very interesting, I’ll tell a story. My first delegation I led to the Olympic Youth Camp was in Barcelona (DO: Okay). Flew, got there, the kids stayed separate from where we stayed in the Olympic headquarters. We got a call in the middle of the night, three of my girls were molested by a Spanish security guard. So all before the opening ceremony, what was I doing? (DO: Attending to that) Attending to that. And not only did he molest the US girls, African, Jamaican girl, and also Japanese, they had them all in a room.
DO: The security guard!
AA: Security guard. He was working there, went home got drunk, and came back and climbed through the window. So, you know, international incidents, you to be prepared for anything (DO: right) when you’re on international grounds and floor.
DO: Well those may be negative experiences as an African American as well.
AA: Yes, and diversity (DO: Right) I’ve heard like, Renee Powell, the golfer and she right over here by Canton by the way, if you wanted to talk to her. She would be more than happy to be interviewed by you. Renee Powell, saddest thing, you know, her father is the only person in the United States, Black, that built a golf course. And it’s right over here in Canton. (DO: Oh, really?)
AA: Okay, her father has passed away but her and her brother still run it and Renee is very famous on the professional league but to hear her tell me stories about how her and Althea Gibson used to have to change in the parking lot, their clothes, because they weren’t allowed in the club house…that’s sad. (DO: Umm Hmm) That’s very degrading (DO: Yes, that’s not right).
AA: So as a Black woman, and Althea Gibson as a Black woman, I mean she was a prolific tennis player (DO: Absolutely). A lot of people don’t know she was prolific in terms of being a golfer herself. And could not even change in the country club, had to change in the parking lot. And Renee said, you know, Renee was much younger than Althea and she just, she actually stood there and witnessed it. But she’s a story within herself. You know, and she’s not that far.
DO: Right, I’d love to talk to her.
Unpublished
2016-10-20
<a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/4.0/"></a><br />This work by <span>Dyese Osaze</span> is licensed under a <a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/4.0/">Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0 International License</a>.
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InterviewPARTI_2016
The College of Wooster in Wooster, Ohio